1

(13 respuestas, enviadas el English talk)

lol I just noticed these:

Recap escribió:

If you want to attempt to explain why real-time polygons, three-dimensional mechanics in a two-dimensional medium

As far as OUR EYES are concerned, EVERYTHING is "two-dimensional"; there's no material difference between a computer screen or a view of the (real?) Grand Canyon. Check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trompe-l%27%C5%93il

And I mean, dude, you like belt-scrollers lol, which compared to 3D brawlers are unplayable, lol, precisely because they are supposed to be played with arcade sticks. I am even embarrassed at having to point these things out to you, man, but you keep giving me reasons to.


Recap escribió:

and analog control pads or control systems based on non-gaming interfaces

You seriously think that there are such things as "gaming interfaces"? As opposed to what? Says who? Are you religious or something? You think when Moses came back from the mountain he brought back with him an arcade stick on a pedestal engraved by god with the words "GAMING INTERFACE"? I have news for you, Recap, ANYTHING CAN BECOME A GAMING INTERFACE AS LONG AS THE HUMAN BEINGS WHO MANUFACTURED IT DEEM IT TO BE SO. Arcade sticks are made of the same metal and plastic components as racing wheels, light guns and analog controllers. As long as the device is being used for a game IT IS A GAMING INTERFACE, just as the keyboard and mouse are in Civilization (the greatest strategy game ever, fyi).

And again, I feel pathetic even pointing these things out, man. Like BEING FORCED to point them out. This is supposed to be a FUCKING SERIOUS SITE ABOUT VIDEOGAMES, not some goddamn retard home! Get a grip on yourself for fuck's sake!

2

(13 respuestas, enviadas el English talk)

Recap escribió:

Icycalm, keep that shit for your own forum, thankyouverymuch. ... gratuitous insults which lead the discussion nowhere won't be tolerated even from you.

There's not a single gratuitous comment in any of my posts in this thread. If the substantiation that I offered is not enough for you, ask for more and I will provide it. As to your level of tolerance of my ideas and arguments, it has nothing to do with me, and you will of course take any action you deem necessary, whenever you deem it so.

Recap escribió:

If you want to attempt to explain why real-time polygons, three-dimensional mechanics in a two-dimensional medium, and analog control pads or control systems based on non-gaming interfaces are "utterly superior" to bitmap-based graphics, pure 2-D mechanics, and digital controls, go ahead.

I already have: because they are more immersive, i.e. as I have explained at length in my Genealogy (even just the parts of it that have been published on the internet so far), artistically superior. And I mean, besides all that (which is all there is, and all there needs to be, but perhaps some humor might help you see the ridiculousness of your position anyway), if you think that a retarded childish little 2D bitmap, or some variation of fucking Tetris or whatever (which is what all the 2D action genres boil down to in the end), or a fucking arcade stick or whatever, are the ULTIMATE POSSIBLE ACHIEVEMENTS OF DIGITAL ENTERTAINMENT, and that the purpose of the entire history of digital technology as it pertains to art had been achieved with these pathetic little developments, you are out of your fucking mind. Even if we put behind us all the theory and all the science and all the art, and just simply put a screen from Super Mario World or whatever (to demonstrate the graphics), and an arcade stick on a couple of pedestals and write beneath them: THE PINNACLES OF DIGITAL ART, we'd have even THE PEDESTALS THEMSELVES LAUGHING AT US, dude. The absurdity of your position is so obvious the moment we leave some early-90's obsessive's dedicated gaming room and go out into the street and get some goddamn air, that no arguments at all would be required to prove any of my points (quite aside from the fact that I HAVE ALL OF THEM WHILE YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING). Like, for reals dude. If you seriously think that the pinnacle of art is The Super Shinobi or Strider or whatever, you seriously need some goddamn air. Nor can you escape from this implication by hiding yourself inside the term "videogames" and claiming that art and videogames are two separate things, because that dichotomy has already been demolished in my Genealogy. Art and videogames are EXACTLY THE SAME THING, and as I explain in my article on Set Theory (and as you should be able to grasp without even reading it), videogames are basically a superset of all previous (and in fact even future) artforms. So if you say that some random 2D childish little game is the pinnacle of videogames you are saying it is the pinnacle of art, and no amount of muddling the waters or backpedalling can obscure that retarded insinuation.

Recap escribió:

The reason I prefer 16-bit games over 8-bit ones, or games with scene development over stuff without it is, essentially, an aesthetics subject.

As if all my writings weren't about aesthetics, lol.

Recap escribió:

A plain matter of beauty. Of pleasing my eyes.

There's nothing "plain" about beauty, Recap. It is an extremely complicated subject, and our understanding and pursuit of it hinges on an immense level to all the rules and guidelines art theorists like me have been expounding for millennia. The retort that "that is simply what I like" belongs on gamefaqs: at the level of art theory and criticism it is merely an ignorant childish gesture. And I am telling you why games with stage progression (i.e. scene development) "please your eyes" -- instead of having a game be a single glorified stage (however beautiful) -- because real life has scene development, which is why therefore it's more immersive.

Recap escribió:

It has nothing to do with how well the game makes me feel as its stupid protagonist --neither how well the game makes of me its actual protagonist-- nor the virtual tangibleness of its world.

It has everything to do with exactly those things, and your denial of this obvious simple fact is merely your way of attacking the theory which you can see eventually, in the long run, and from a higher viewpoint, denies the superiority (and therefore ultimately the relevance) of your tastes.

Recap escribió:

As I told you once, I don't give a shit about immersion in my action games. Not that kind, anyway.

There's only one kind of immersion, and as far as 2D Japanese games go you are a downright ADDICT of it.

3

(13 respuestas, enviadas el English talk)

Recap, just in case you care, the reason you prefer games with scene development, as you call it, over stuff like Asteroids, and then again 16-bit games over 8-bit games, are exactly the same reasons that make me prefer 3D games over 2D ones. So the stuff you posted, about B-movies and the like, apply also to your favorite games. I can even quote you from this thread:

"amazing settings and scenography"

That was in reference to some childishly crap 2D eurotrash art, and to the accompanying C-movie plots.

Just in case you care to know how you look when you talk about stuff like this, you look exactly like Ebert when he's scribbling stupidities to justify his hatred of videogames, and the resentment he feels at his favorite art being superseded. Every little pseudo-argument, and I mean EVERY SINGLE ONE, that is being constructed in order to support its author's incapacity, appears, to those who do not share that incapacity, retarded. So the best thing for Ebert to do would simply to remain silent...

I am not saying you should be too. I am just trying to explain to you how the situation looks like from where I am standing. And as it happens, I have 2,500 years of science and culture standing right here with me.

4

(13 respuestas, enviadas el English talk)

To make my position crystal clear, if given a choice between saving Far Cry 2 or the entire history of 2D games, the 2D stuff would all go in the trash without a second's hesitation, just as I'd trash all the paintings ever made to save a Heat, a Blade Runner or a Dark Knight. That doesn't mean I can't appreciate the primitive stuff -- it is part of the amazing depth and breadth of my tastes and aesthetic sensibilities that I can -- but the utter superiority of the advanced stuff has to be recognized, if not by everyone then at least by the highest arbiters of taste, otherwise we might as well agree with the artfags that progress in art is impossible and go back to cave paintings or splattered canvases.

That is not to say that I expect you to agree to this. But it would at least be a good idea for you to realize what my position is, simply for the purposes of whatever discussions we might have on this or related topics.

5

(13 respuestas, enviadas el English talk)

Recap escribió:

I was talking in a general sense -- we don't get new amateur pieces which can touch the quality of the great games of the past much like we don't get new professional pieces which can do that, either.

To stay with the genres that you like, Operation Darkness is among the best SRPGs I've ever played, and in many respects trounces even the better Fire Emblems and Langrissers, and it's a 2007 game on the Xbox 360. Goku Makaimura is probably the best in the series, at least mechanically, and that Hard Corps game seems to be on the same level. It's true that in the 2D action genres the new stuff usually can't compare, but those are not all the genres that exist. Progress now happens in the 3D genres, for the same reason that painting has stagnated and movies and videogames is where the action's at.

Recap escribió:

And the examples you gave seem to confirm it, even if the comparison there has to be much more... abstract.

They do nothing of the sort. They are some of the best videogames I've ever played, Recap, and I'll explain why at length in my upcoming reviews.

But at least we can agree on the Western amateur scene, which actually isn't amateur at all, but whatever. I guess we have to call them something (I vote for "bunglers).

6

(1.702 respuestas, enviadas el Hablemos de juegos)

I don't see a close equivalence with the professional market. There are some similarities (the general lack of difficulty and dumbing down, for example), but you still get stuff like Senjou no Valkyria, Operation Darkness, Far Cry 2, Vanquish and Bayonetta that move things forward. In the "indie" market, there seems to be no moving forward whatsoever.

The closest parallel I can see, is with the European (mainly British) home computer scene in the 80's and early '90s (and specifically the action genres). Countless games that are practically unplayable now -- though still better than the "indie" trash (except if my memory is being too kind on the former...)

7

(1.702 respuestas, enviadas el Hablemos de juegos)

It really seems impossible to stop these people. And they are churning out this shit at such a rate, that in order to keep trashing them we'd have to turn reviewing "indie" trash into a full-time job. It really boggles the mind how much time, money and effort is going into this by-now gigantic 2D "indie" scene, the long term result of which is that not a single one of these games, not a single title that comes out of this scene, will ever be able to stand shoulder to shoulder with the great games of the past (or even with mediocre ones!), never mind surpass them. And everyone else in the industry besides us is doing their utmost to make sure that this will never change.

8

(7 respuestas, enviadas el English talk)

Everything is subjective so Recap might as well close the forum down since Macaw is "not sure how much can be gained from discussing anything" lol.

Or did you just mean that you felt offended that Recap attacked your taste and instead of trying to offer arguments to the contrary you would feel more comfortable by undermining the authority of his taste by labeling it as "subjective" and dropping the discussion?

For the record, I think that GunLord boss looks perfectly fine. Not great, or special in any way, but I would have easily taken it for a Japanese effort if not told otherwise. The only things bad about that screenshot are the sprite, the bonus items and the platform. The boss, background and weapon effects are just fine as far as I am concerned. So I concur with Recap that what Westerners often fail to get is cohesion between the various visual elements -- as if different people worked on them without bothering to show each other what they were doing. And the same of course holds true for 3D efforts. Take a game like Otogi, for example, where the fucking menu screens are some of the most visually impressive things I've ever seen on a computer monitor, and the entire game's style flows like water. I can't imaging Westerners ever getting anywhere near that level of coherence in a hundred years. Except with something as simple and plain as a minimalist amateur game -- in which case even I could do it.

9

(29 respuestas, enviadas el Hablemos de juegos)

lol, I've had like four or five of them since launch, and not a single problem.

Recap escribió:

I'm quite sure he'll realize that Uprising's visuals are far from Super Contra, Spirits or MD Hard Corps'.

This is where my percentages come in. If he indeed places far less emphasis on aesthetics than you, then even if he ends up ranking its aesthetics lower than those of its predecessors this won't make that big of a difference on his final verdict.

Recap escribió:

Maybe he's, right now, a bit overwhelmed by the novelty -- a favorite old-school genre in these days, an astonishing amount of special moves and possibilities, a brand-new console, etc.

You call "an astonishing amount of special moves and possibilities" a novelty?

10

(81 respuestas, enviadas el Hablemos de juegos)

The reason I am only interested in original games in this context is because the point of the whole exercise, for me, is to judge the effect of the XBLA service on ORIGINAL game design. Of course I am interested in good ports and remakes. Just not for the purpose of my evaluation of the ORIGINAL worth of the service.

Climax had a deluxe version with a widescreen LCD, by the way. I didn't get to play it.

11

(29 respuestas, enviadas el Hablemos de juegos)

Recap escribió:

So then is Josh hung up on visuals too?

Basically, it's like this:

You review roughly 70% on aesthetics and 30% on mechanics.
Josh reviews roughly 70% on mechanics and 30% on aesthetics.
And I review roughly 60% on mechanics and 40% on aesthetics.

Even a 50/50 split is a mistake; but your reviews, however much I appreciate and respect them, are seriously skewed in the wrong direction, dude.


As for the rest you might be right. Time will tell.

12

(29 respuestas, enviadas el Hablemos de juegos)

Yeah, but you are not counting in the fact that Josh might actually LIKE its visuals (in fact that's what he says on his Twitter account), just like you didn't count in the fact that I liked Arcana Heart's visuals. So if he likes the mechanics AND the visuals, I don't see any reason why his enthusiasm for the game might diminish in the future.

13

(81 respuestas, enviadas el Hablemos de juegos)

I've played Metal Slug 7 on the DS, and from my limited play time I'd say it's mediocre. 3/5 perhaps. The XX 360 version is a port of the PSP port... so probably a bad port of a mediocre game. Not something I'd call "good", then. And it's not an original game either.

That's all I've played from your list.

14

(29 respuestas, enviadas el Hablemos de juegos)

lol, not everyone is so hung up on visuals as you are, Recap.

15

(81 respuestas, enviadas el Hablemos de juegos)

I said "original" game, so many of the titles on your list don't count. The sure-fire good games then seem to be Uprising (according to Josh), and Omega 5 (according to you). I've played neither of them, but I've played many others, and none of them are anywhere near what I'd call good. So we have two games so far.

16

(3 respuestas, enviadas el English talk)

Recap escribió:

After five years or so I still can't get used to the ridiculousness of the console's name.

I had forgotten all about this. Even the "Wii" seems natural to me at this point. In hindsight, it IS more natural than the fuckin' "Xbox 360". God, what a dumb idea that was. It will be interesting to see what they name its successor. If we fucking ever get one, that is. Before we know it it'll be a decade without ANY new consoles out.

17

(3 respuestas, enviadas el English talk)

Recap, I just have to ask. Do you even have a reason for writing 360 as "3-60"? If so, I would be enormously interested in finding out what it is.

18

(5 respuestas, enviadas el Hablemos de juegos)

Recap, there's a config file in the Spelunky folder, and if you run it you can choose the resolution of the game: 1x, 2x, 3x, or 4x. It's just that 4x seems to be the default one for whatever reason.

If you ever happen to play it, even for a quick go, I'd be interested to know what you make of it, especially in comparison with my criticisms. And also your take on the graphics.

19

(1 respuestas, enviadas el Hablemos de juegos)

Hey Recap, I wanted to ask you your opinion on this game:

http://adamatomic.com/canabalt/

http://www.twotalkingmonkeys.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/canabalt.jpg

It's a web game so you can give it a go right away if you want. It only takes like a couple of minutes to have one or two goes at it, and I can guarantee that you won't regret the time investment.

Now, I've posted a satirical piece about the game on my site (satirical of the people who have tried to review it really -- not of the game itself) and also some sarcastic comments in my forum (again directed at the game's clueless reviewers), but the actual game, apart from all the joking, is pretty damn good I think. It is of course a RETRO game, so one should not compare it to contemporary standards of complexity, of course -- but just imagine this game in an arcade in 1980 or 1985 or something. I have no doubt it would have been at the very least a popular title, if not indeed among the most popular. There are one or two fairly minor and easily addressed (in a revision) technical faults, and I will analyze them in my upcoming review at length, but despite them I must admit I am quite taken with the game. Even from an aesthetic perspective, in fact (ignoring the retardation of the game's "HD" mode...)

I would be very interested to hear what you make of all this.

20

(4 respuestas, enviadas el Hablemos de juegos)

http://lasergun.wordpress.com/2009/03/2 … adventure/

I'll have to try this out for myself I think.

21

(2 respuestas, enviadas el English talk)

I was under the impression that this Racjin was a relatively new company, that's why I was surprised to see them as developers of Tengai Makyou.

22

(2 respuestas, enviadas el English talk)

Are these two the same company? I am asking this based on your Tengai Makyou review:

http://postback.geedorah.com/revisiones … den_01.htm

and because of my ASH review:

http://insomnia.ac/reviews/ds/archaicsealedheat/

in which I say a few things about this Racjin -- IF it is the same which made Tengai Makyou...

23

(44 respuestas, enviadas el English talk)

Makes sense. Especially the "and only because you can't ignore them" part.

24

(44 respuestas, enviadas el English talk)

But then, so does Mushihime-sama -- on the OST, at least, it says "Mushihimesama"... What would be your choice for that?

25

(44 respuestas, enviadas el English talk)

Oh, I see. Much like "Yoshi's Island" then.