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Tema: Site issues

In this page:

http://postback.geedorah.com/general.html

The link to the article titles "Round 2" does not work...

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Re: Site issues

And one more thing, Recap. I remember a while ago you had told me that the next issue of Postback (which I guess meant either the previous one or the current one) would be the last. What was up with that? Have you already started work on the next one?

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Re: Site issues

Did I? I hope I wasn't too categorical! I'll be honest -- the idea of quitting is always in my mind, you see. The site, as a website, is a failure not really worth my time and efforts. And... I'm also getting less and less satisfied with the final results, as a reader/visitor.

The thing is, I've only put there a very small fraction of what I have to say on video-games. There's still stuff which needs to be shown and explained properly, and seems nobody else wants to/can do it. So let's just say that, for now, I'm working on the next issue, yeah.



And thanks for the heads-up. That page is doomed or something.

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Re: Site issues

I would like to know what your standard of success and failure for a website are...

The other thing you say, that you've only said a fraction of what you have to say on video games, was exactly the problem I was facing several months ago, and am still facing in fact. Basically, reviews are of secondary importance -- and I think you will agree with me on this: the most important things we have to say need to go in articles. So, in the past, for the sake of balance and variety, I used to post one article per 4 or 5 reviews, but this was much too slow a rate for me. So I pretty much dropped the reviews and concentrated on the articles. My reasoning now is this: I might as well get all the articles out of the way (the most important ones, at any rate), and then I can devote myself to reviews, if I still feel like there's a point to doing them. Otherwise, if I had kept to the 5/1 ratio of reviews to articles, it would end up taking me half a decade to get done saying all I had to say.

Another thing I wanted to ask... what happened with Hayama Akito? I tried babelfishing the relevant thread, but didn't manage to understand much. At any rate I was surprised to learn that he's the only person you've had to ban so far. I would have expected a few more bannings over the 4+ years that you've been running this site. It seems my site is a moron-magnet for some reason :(

5 (editado por Recap 08-03-2009 11:50:28)

Re: Site issues

icycalm escribió:

I would like to know what your standard of success and failure for a website are...

Of course I was talking just about popularity. A website with no visitors is a failure. I'm not saying I get no visitors and even some nice feedback once in a while, but it's not enough for what this place offers. Especially considering the competition. I know it's directly related with the quantity-over-quality mindset and whatnot (I actually believe it's worse than that, though; the people just can't tell where there is quality and where there is not), but that's besides the point -- simply, I don't run a website only because I somehow enjoy it, but because I want my stuff to be read. And, as you know, I already stopped caring about winning that battle.



The other thing you say, that you've only said a fraction of what you have to say on video games, was exactly the problem I was facing several months ago, and am still facing in fact. Basically, reviews are of secondary importance -- and I think you will agree with me on this: the most important things we have to say need to go in articles. So, in the past, for the sake of balance and variety, I used to post one article per 4 or 5 reviews, but this was much too slow a rate for me. So I pretty much dropped the reviews and concentrated on the articles. My reasoning now is this: I might as well get all the articles out of the way (the most important ones, at any rate), and then I can devote myself to reviews, if I still feel like there's a point to doing them. Otherwise, if I had kept to the 5/1 ratio of reviews to articles, it would end up taking me half a decade to get done saying all I had to say.

Well, we have different ways to approach this subject. I indeed think that the best way I have to show what I want is through "reviews"/game-focused articles. For instance, if I want to explain why 20-years-old games like Gen-san look better than hi-res, 32-bit colors Western stuff like the Boy and his Blob remake, there's nothing like having a "review" of it with proper screens.

I wish I had the patience and skills to write so many understandable theory-focused editorials as yourself, but I just don't have them nor I'd enjoy it as much. And think about this -- I myself did enjoy Insomnia more when you favored reviews over editorials or philosophy lessons.



Another thing I wanted to ask... what happened with Hayama Akito? I tried babelfishing the relevant thread, but didn't manage to understand much.

Hayama Akito is one of the few persons, much like yourself, who is aware that _I_ am the fucking best source for news on Japanese games. Not just because of how I do the selection and add the illustrative commentary you don't find anywhere else, but because I've been doing it for more years he can even remember and have provided the original sources like nobody else does. I learned that he essentially copy-pasted once and again the news from Postback in his Gamercafe without mentioning his actual source, to the point of ridiculeness -- taking advantage, of course, of Postback's "obscurity". It was quite hilarious finding out that he indeed had been linking IC back when I posted the news there.

Then I learned that he also had been doing it at Shoryuken Dot Com, taking credit for stuff he just saw here first, and he never was grateful even once, despite knowing that every news worth posting he "revealed" (and "reveals") to his very public was/is thanks to me (or Zepy, if you count doujin as worth material) -- even if it's only because without me, he wouldn't have a miserable Japanese source. So I got tired of this kid with that hunger for fame and false acknowledgement, especially when I asked him to stop and he persisted on insulting me by denying it all.

Gamercafe is so horrid from a language/textual perspective I do wonder if anybody there is over 12, anyhow.


At any rate I was surprised to learn that he's the only person you've had to ban so far. I would have expected a few more bannings over the 4+ years that you've been running this site. It seems my site is a moron-magnet for some reason :(

If it serves, Hayama is not the only one. A couple more followed soon after and another couple would have been banned if they hadn't stopped posting, I'm sure.


Edit: Silly errata.

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Re: Site issues

Recap escribió:

Of course I was talking just about popularity. A website with no visitors is a failure. I'm not saying I get no visitors and even some nice feedback once in a while, but it's not enough for what this place offers. Especially considering the competition. I know it's directly related with the quantity-over-quality mindset and whatnot (I actually believe it's worse than that, though; the people just can't tell where there is quality and where there is not), but that's besides the point -- simply, I don't run a website only because I somehow enjoy it, but because I want my stuff to be read. And, as you know, I already stopped caring about winning that battle.

If your reviews and articles could somehow be translated into English, you'd get a lot more feedback and acknowledgement for your work, which would then motivate you to keep going. I already have two of your articles translated in my inbox, which I've been meaning to run by you for corrections so that I can post them on Insomnia. I've had them sitting there for ages, so you know, we'll get around to those and all the rest eventually. It just takes time and patience. Reputation DOES spread, even for high-quality content which is difficult to appreciate -- it just takes time... When the Insert Credits and Gamercafes and Select Buttons are all forgotten, people will still remember our websites, man. If you keep this in mind, you can keep going for a long time indeed -- as long as you are enjoying yourself, of course.


I wish I had the patience and skills to write so many understandable theory-focused editorials as yourself, but I just don't have them nor I'd enjoy it as much. And think about this -- I myself did enjoy Insomnia more when you favored reviews over editorials or philosophy lessons.

Well, like I said, once all the theory is out of the way -- and, really, it is a job that had to be done eventually... and is very near completion right now -- then I won't have anything else to talk about except specific games. Of course at that point the question will be whether I feel like talking about specific games or not... but if I do, then the only things on Insomnia's frontpage will be new reviews.

and he persisted on insulting me by denying it all.

Yeah, this really is the worst. One can forgive almost anything in the end, except that.

7 (editado por icycalm 07-03-2009 20:12:19)

Re: Site issues

Also, I laughed at this:

Recap escribió:

I'm not saying I get no visitors and even some nice feedback once in a while, but it's not enough for what this place offers.

It never is, is it?

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Re: Site issues

I guess it never is, yeah. But don't get me wrong, more than acknowledgement per se, I'd just need more evidences of my articles being read. Like having all those dozens of shitty blogs/forums dedicated to "retrogaming" or Japanese games linking my stuff. I always love a good-reasoned criticism, whichever its polarity, on the other hand.

As for the English versions of my writings, I'm looking forward to them, thanks! You know I believe it won't be the same, but hey.

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Re: Site issues

Recap escribió:

I guess it never is, yeah. But don't get me wrong, more than acknowledgement per se, I'd just need more evidences of my articles being read. Like having all those dozens of shitty blogs/forums dedicated to "retrogaming" or Japanese games linking my stuff.

If it was in English, they would be. That's the only thing that's holding you back...

Recap escribió:

I always love a good-reasoned criticism, whichever its polarity, on the other hand.

The problem with being always right is that you cannot get good-reasoned criticism. You can get either complete approval, or complete rejection :)

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Re: Site issues

icycalm escribió:

If it was in English, they would be. That's the only thing that's holding you back...

Actually, I was referring to the Spanish iterations. The other day I did a Google search in order to see if I could add some related Spanish site to Postback's links page and find out an overwhelming amount of them. The blog phenomenon has radically changed the scenario of 4 years ago. Quite sadly, I couldn't find a single one worth linking. And very few linking this site (though many linking IC, go figure). I think indeed that there're more non-Spanish sites linking Postback than Spanish ones [laughs]. Memo: One day I have to tell you about Spanish idiosyncrasy.

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Re: Site issues

Recap escribió:

I think indeed that there're more non-Spanish sites linking Postack than Spanish ones [laughs].

Imagine how many more there would be if the site was in English. I am not saying it should have been in English. But really, the language barrier is the only reason you do not get enough feedback.

I think that, now that Insomnia's reputation is getting to somewhat decent levels, I should be able to find several people willing to start translating your site methodically. I already know at least 3 or 4 such people, though I am afraid only one of them can really do a good job. But as time goes by, and it becomes easier to find more volunteers, the day might even come when a new edition of Postback will be offered in Spanish and English simultaneously.

All this, of course, assuming we still care about updating our sites one or two years down the line :)

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Re: Site issues

It should have been in English. Assuming that my English skills were as tolerable as my Spanish ones are, that is.

I think that a good translator [for my articles] needs to be a little bit less literal than the previous one. If he's good enough at English he should be able to port the tone and style properly. You can't do that being literal. So maybe it's you the one who ends up fixing every translation. And seriously, you shouldn't be wasting your own time with it, much like I shouldn't either.

13 (editado por icycalm 09-03-2009 02:08:12)

Re: Site issues

After the translator is done, it is really only an issue of an hour or so for me and you to go over it and clean it up. So it's not that much of a time investment on our part, considering the benefits to both of us. And those benefits are:

-Your articles immediately reach at least twice as many people as usual.

-My site gets even more great content -- for only a very small time investment on my part (since most of the work has been done by you and the translator).

I would basically love to have your entire site (including the forum, lol!) translated into English and seamlessly integrated with mine. So that if I wanted to talk about Out Zone or Giga Wing or scanlines or arcade sticks, I could just link to your reviews or articles straightaway -- something which I can't do right now.

But, for a start, I think it is quite feasible to have all the articles translated within the next 5-6 months. We already have three almost done, so we are already about a quarter of the way there. At least as far as the articles are concerned, we might be able to catch up with you by the next issue of Postback. That'd be really nice, I think.

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Re: Site issues

Postback in english...sounds like fliying elephants and at the same time it's interesting, but, I agreed with Recap that Postback will lost its personality with the transliteration, and the site lost its personal sign, I pressumed.

From my point of view, Postback, it's that: a very personal view for classic (and not only classic) videogames and the japanese-showbussiness. Postback=Recap, and if he can´t keep this job so personal on english, it's better maintain the site in his original language.

The funny part is if Postback went into an English form all Spanish slugs steal links from Recap to feed their shitty blogs. That's the Spanish ignorance.

I'll hope that I write all correctly. My english sucks

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Re: Site issues

I'm really interested in it despite my words, so I wouldn't mind checking and correcting it all. It's just that I'm skeptical about the final result. But I wouldn't mind even inserting the English text in Postback's layout (or a similar one to it) in case you get one or more of the Revisiones translated. So, yeah.

16 (editado por icycalm 09-03-2009 02:55:50)

Re: Site issues

Marshall escribió:

but, I agreed with Recap that Postback will lost its personality with the transliteration, and the site lost its personal sign, I pressumed.

The site would lose nothing. We are not going to REPLACE the Spanish with the English translation, dude.

Marshall escribió:

From my point of view, Postback, it's that: a very personal view for classic (and not only classic) videogames and the japanese-showbussiness. Postback=Recap, and if he can´t keep this job so personal on english, it's better maintain the site in his original language.

No one said that the site would not maintain its original language. Of course it will.

Recap escribió:

But I wouldn't mind even inserting the English text in Postback's layout (or a similar one to it) in case you get one or more of the Revisiones translated.

Yeah, for the reviews we would have to use the same layout (I would personally love it if you could simply alter the color scheme to match Insomnia's, and leave all the rest intact. And I mean, you could always host a duplicate of the English translation on Postback too, if you wanted, with Postback's color scheme...).

It's going to be a bit tricky, of course, and require a bit more work than the articles, which is why I am leaving the reviews for after we are done with the articles. I would especially like to start with the more obscure ones, such as Kuroi Hitomi, Deae Tonosama, etc. I am sure they will cause quite a stir on the internets.

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Re: Site issues

icycalm escribió:

No one said that the site would not maintain its original language. Of course it will.

I think Marshall was trying to say that the English version of Postback won't really be 'Postback' as such since there'll always be something lost in the translation process. Hence, English-versed people won't really know 'Postback', but an altered form of it, so it's at least questionable. And those are exactly my thoughts. But given that Postback failed as a website, it's a welcome proposal. In the end, it's better if the people know a slightly altered version of Postback than no Postback at all.




It's going to be a bit tricky, of course, and require a bit more work than the articles, which is why I am leaving the reviews for after we are done with the articles. I would especially like to start with the more obscure ones, such as Kuroi Hitomi, Deae Tonosama, etc. I am sure they will cause quite a stir on the internets.

This is what I think: If we're really looking for a "stir" of some level, we should be publishing them somehow grouped in small issues, a bit like I do with my own updates. Throwing one of them alone from time to time on Insomnia's frontpage, while it'll serve to add more content, won't really help the cause (=letting more people know this site). As a proper Insomnia's section/subsite, especially if they're going have their own layout, would have more impact and would make all those Japanophiles keep an eye in your site. I'm sure they find Insomnia a bit too "Westernish" for their tastes as it is.

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Re: Site issues

Thanks Recap, That's I want to say.

Sorry if my lines bug you.

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Re: Site issues

Guys, I know Nietzsche, Baudrillard, Stendhal, Machiavelli, etc. from translation, and that's the only way I'll ever get to know them. Nietzsche is still Nietzsche even if you translate him into Swahili, so let's keep some perspective here. Postback will still be Postback regardless of the language it is translated into. It is still Postback even through babelfish.

As for translating Postback issues in one go, it's a good idea, but I think it would be too hard to implement with volunteers. Besides, if we take that route then we might as well stop translating individual articles and start from Issue 1 in its entirety.

Which is a great idea, but maybe not such an easy one...

On that note, how would you feel about simply hiring a competent translator, Recap? I am sure you could find someone in Madrid. I would be willing to go halves with you on that. I am already going to be sending some free games to the volunteers for their work, so if we could find a proper translator who could do the issues one by one, without asking for TOO much money, I think it could be worthwhile.

And of course the translator won't know too much about games, so we'll have to go over everything and fix any mistakes, but I am sure the end result will be even better than what we get now with the volunteers -- and it will also be much faster. A pro translator could do an entire issue in an afternoon, after all...

Think about this.

20 (editado por karagh 09-03-2009 15:44:28)

Re: Site issues

And of course the translator won't know too much about games, so we'll have to go over everything and fix any mistakes, but I am sure the end result will be even better than what we get now with the volunteers -- and it will also be much faster. A pro translator could do an entire issue in an afternoon, after all...

In my opinion, your work would be the same, or more, than with a gamer with good knowledge of English, because we have to correct his perception of gaming, not grammar issues. I say this because I have some experience on the matter of translating spanish technical and docence articles to english. It's really hard to make understand the translator what you actually want to say when he doesn't know the matter. He may end up with a text more focused on what the article says than how it's said.

Anyway, I think that the translation idea is really good and that must be put into practice, or at least try it. Icycalm, maybe when those 2-3 articles are finished we can have a good perspective of what can be expected of all this. If you need some help, tell me.

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Re: Site issues

As for translating Postback issues in one go, it's a good idea, but I think it would be too hard to implement with volunteers. Besides, if we take that route then we might as well stop translating individual articles and start from Issue 1 in its entirety.

I didn't mean that. We can invent many things. For instance, think of it as "anthological issues". You can put into each of them whichever you want. The point is just not releasing the usual one-shots which would get lost on your frontpage.



On that note, how would you feel about simply hiring a competent translator, Recap? I am sure you could find someone in Madrid. I would be willing to go halves with you on that. I am already going to be sending some free games to the volunteers for their work, so if we could find a proper translator who could do the issues one by one, without asking for TOO much money, I think it could be worthwhile.

That's very nice and thanks a lot, but I don't even "hire" a domain name... This shit should be paying some bills of mine, not the opposite. On the other hand, I don't believe in Spanish translators. I've worked at a very popular translation company based in Madrid, so I should know! It's better a natively English speaker, since that's the target language.

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Re: Site issues

karagh escribió:

Anyway, I think that the translation idea is really good and that must be put into practice, or at least try it. Icycalm, maybe when those 2-3 articles are finished we can have a good perspective of what can be expected of all this.

You already have one example right here: http://insomnia.ac/commentary/of_genoci … nventions/

Even after some fixing by myself, I don't like it.

23 (editado por icycalm 09-03-2009 16:28:36)

Re: Site issues

Recap escribió:

I didn't mean that. We can invent many things. For instance, think of it as "anthological issues". You can put into each of them whichever you want. The point is just not releasing the usual one-shots which would get lost on your frontpage.

I don't understand what you mean. The way I see it, it's either issue by issue, or article by article. I don't see a third way to do this, except if you want to group together 2 or 3 articles/reviews at a time, which I guess is possible, though I don't quite see the reason. Either go full out with entire issues at a time, or one article at a time, is how I see it. Maybe you can try explaining what you mean by "anthological issues"?

As for the one-shots getting lost on my frontpage, I don't see that happening. Indeed, if I got enough people helping with the translation, it would be my frontpage that would be flooded by your articles and reviews, not the other way around.

But I don't really care about this either way. The point is to get people to read this stuff, and if we are going to translate 60+ articles and reviews, and post them on my site, everyone will end up seeing them one way or another. I mean I don't think there are even 60 articles/reviews on there by me, let alone by any single other person. So you would end up being Insomnia's no.1 writer, lol!

So this is the point. The reason your website has "failed" is because people read some shit about you in a forum, then click on some link to a Spanish page which they cannot be bothered to try and read, then leave and never come back. So they simply end up believing whatever lies they have been told. The same thing happens with my site too, but at least the people actually read my stuff, and many of them see that the shit others are saying about me is not true, and so they keep coming back again and again. Then they go back and tell their friends that their shit about me is not true, and then multiple-page threads start in which people battle it out about whether I am an idiot or a genius, and that leads to more and more traffic to my site, etc. etc. Eventually, a decent reputation grows.

If your site was in English (including the forum), all the "retro" kiddies on the internet would be reading it and linking it with wild abandon...

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Re: Site issues

I don't understand what you mean. The way I see it, it's either issue by issue, or article by article. I don't see a third way to do this, except if you want to group together 2 or 3 articles/reviews at a time, which I guess is possible, though I don't quite see the reason. Either go full out with entire issues at a time, or one article at a time, is how I see it. Maybe you can try explaining what you mean by "anthological issues"?

I can:

Postback EX #01 -- On Genocides and Reinventions | Kuroi Hitomi no Noire (PS) | Deae Tonosama Appare Ichiban (SFC) | Choosing your Arcade Stick Parts


What I said about your frontpage makes no sense, that's right. Indeed, with this format it would get more hidden since it's just one entry. I think I meant to say 'in the whole site'. Having its own section (as if it was a 'mini-site' within) is what would serve to differentiate it, which seems apropiate if only because of the different layout. Anyhow, this should require more thinking, and most likely it only could come after your pages with the old format get updated and see if your general index could get a bit more clear.

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Re: Site issues

Recap escribió:

Postback EX #01 -- On Genocides and Reinventions | Kuroi Hitomi no Noire (PS) | Deae Tonosama Appare Ichiban (SFC) | Choosing your Arcade Stick Parts

So you want 4 articles to take up only a single slot on the frontpage? We could do it, but the pages would end up getting less traffic than otherwise.

As for an index page devoted to Postback -- there is nothing easier than this to create. All I would need is a 750x175 banner with the Postback logo. And I would also add a section on the sidebar of the frontpage where all the latest Postback updates will be linked. And of course every page would also link directly to the respective Spanish page.

All this stuff is really easy to arrange -- and to change around and modify as many times as we want afterwards.

The main work is the translation, and the insertion of the translated text in the original layout...